Pojem fyzicka osoba neni totozna s clovekem


11.08.2016 - 23:07
(Beran) nutelina
Pojem fyzicka osoba neni totozna s clovekem
Uz se dlouho zabyvam s pojmem fyzicka osoba. Jelikoz umim vyborne anglicky ktery mi je blizsi nez cesky casto studuji v AJ. Nyni jsem opet narazil na pojem ktery se mi nelibil; "your legal personality" Neco ve smyslu "tvoje pravnicka osobnost" Coze? :63: Moje pravnicka osobnost? A kdo mi ji vytvoril? Vim ze fyzicka osoba neni nutne clovek, v zakone se mj. pise: "§ 19(1) Každý člověk má vrozená, již samotným rozumem a citem poznatelná přirozená práva, a tudíž se považuje za osobu. Zákon stanoví jen meze uplatňování přirozených práv člověka a způsob jejich ochrany."Tady neni ani rec o mozne ekvivalence..A jeste horsi: "§ 17(1) Práva může mít a vykonávat jen osoba. Povinnost lze uložit jen osobě a jen vůči ní lze plnění povinnosti vymáhat." Tady neni rec o lidech ani o zviratech..http://business.center.cz/business/… je Google translate stale nedokonaly ale presto stoji to za to, zejmene umite dobre 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%20an%20existing%20evil%20idea%20the%20face%20of%20acceptability%20so%20thoroughly%20and%20uniformly%20that%20no%20one%20would%20ever%20recognise%20its%20outrageously%20evil%20nature%20or%20purpose%3F%0A%0ALet’s%20look%20at%20more%20evidence….%0A%0ALet’s%20take%20the%20exact%20same%20references%20as%20above%20–%20this%20time%20from%20the%20(King%20James%20Bible)%20KJB%20printed%20by%20Hodder%20%26%20Stoughton%20for%20the%20International%20Bible%20Society%20NIV%20©%20edition%201995.%0A%0A1.%20James%202%20v9%3A%0A%0ABut%20if%20you%20show%20favouritism%2C%20you%20sin%20and%20are%20convicted%20by%20the%20law%20as%20law%20breakers.%0A%0A2.%20Romans%202%20v11%20%0A%0AFor%20God%20does%20not%20show%20favouritism.%20%0A%0A3.%20Acts%2010%20v34%0A%0AThen%20Peter%20began%20to%20speak%3A%20“I%20now%20realise%20how%20true%20it%20is%20that%20God%20does%20not%20show%20favouritism…”%0A%0ANow%20Compare%20the%201380%20quotations%20with%20their%201995%20equivalents.%20Three%20times%20the%20word%20‘person’%20has%20been%20removed.%20Three%20times%20the%20word%20‘favouritism’%20has%20been%20substituted.%0A%0ALet’s%20explore%20this%20idea%20further….%20%0A%0AFirst%2C%20God%20declares%20‘persons’%20to%20be%20sinners%20and%20unacceptable%3B%20adopting%20a%20‘person’%2C%20or%20‘a%20presumed%20character’%2C%20it%20is%20an%20act%20of%20‘concealment’.%0A%0A625%20years%20later%2C%20God%20apparently%20has%20second%20thoughts.%20‘Favoritism’%20is%20now%20the%20sin%2C%20and%20‘persons’%20are%20now%20unclassifiable%2C%20equally%20acceptable%20with%20all%20others%2C%20and%20absolved%20from%20sin.%20The%20evil%20of%20‘persons’%20that%20God%20first%20warned%20of%20has%2C%20miraculously%2C%20completely%20vanished.%20Now%20your%20life%2C%20your%20‘dignity’%2C%20your%20“inherent%20value”%20that%20defines%20you%20as%20a%20“someone%20and%20not%20merely%20something”%20%2C%20all%20means%20naught%20—%20because%20“God%20does%20not%20show%20favouritism”%20.%0A%0AHow%20clever%20is%20that%3F%20And%20how%20morally%20and%20criminally%20reprehensible%3F%20%0A%0AToday%2C%20despite%20what%20God%20may%20have%20said%20in%20the%20past%2C%20‘artificial%20persons’%20are%20considered%20completely%20acceptable%20because%20favouritism%20is%20the%20new%20sin.%20So%20too%20are%20natural-persons%2C%20juristic%20persons%2C%20juridical%20persons%2C%20legal%20persons%2C%20moral%20persons%20and%20even%20LEGAL%20ENTITIES.%0A%0ASo….%20who%20are%20you%3F%0A%0AWhen%20you%20interact%20with%20government%20and%20the%20law%2C%20will%20you%20be%20treated%20as%20an%20‘artificial%20person’%2C%20a%20‘natural%20person’%2C%20or%20your%20real%20living%20breathing%20self%3F%0A%0ADo%20you%20do%20governments’%20bidding%3F%20Do%20you%20comply%20with%20their%20every%20statute%20and%20law%3F%20DO%20you%20suffer%20every%20rule%20and%20regulation%3F%20Agree%20to%20every%20financial%20impediment%20and%20our%20constant%20state%20of%20debt%3F%20Accept%20every%20act%20of%20corporate%20back-scratching%20and%20profitable%20environmental%20irresponsibility%3F%20And%20bow%20to%20a%20state%20of%20tyranny%20and%20militaristic%20terror%3F%0A%0AHow%20many%20millions%20of%20us%20listen%20up%2C%20sit%20up%2C%20pay%20up%20and%20shut%20up….%20then%20teach%20our%20children%20that%20government%20is%20for%20their%20personal%20protection%20and%20benefit%3F%0A%0AWhy%20do%20we%20religiously%20believe%20we%20must%20carry%20a%20small%20card%20to%20validate%20our%20existence%2C%20when%20offering%20that%20ID%20constitutes%20nothing%20more%20than%20agreeing%20(with%20government)%20that%20you%20will%20act%20as%20some%20“thing”%20you%20are%20not%3F%0A%0AWhy%20do%20thousands%20cry%20tears%20of%20blood%20every%20week%20when%20stripped%20of%20their%20ID%20or%20driver’s%20licence%2C%20when%20that%20card%20has%20really%20belonged%20to%2C%20and%20defined%2C%20an%20‘artificial%20person’%20from%20day%20one%3F%0A%0AHave%20you%20been%20beguiled%20to%20believe%20the%20‘artificial%20person’%2C%20which%20government%20so%20cleverly%20masked%20in%20word%20play%2C%20is%20you%3F%0A%0ADo%20you%20understand%20the%20criminality%20of%20stripping%20you%20of%20your%20‘life%20characteristics’%2C%20or%20the%20inverted%20morality%20involved%20in%20such%20a%20scheme%3F%0A%0AAre%20you%20a%20flesh-and-blood%2C%20thinking%2C%20living%20being%3F%20Or%20an%20‘artificial%20person’%20that%20your%20ID%20endorses%20every%20time%20you%20present%20it%3F%0A%0AYour%20consent%0A%0AWhere%2C%20on%20any%20ID%20card%20you%20have%20ever%20seen%20it%20stated%2C%20written%20or%20encoded%20that%20you%20are%20a%20living%20being%2C%20to%20the%20exclusion%20of%20all%20others%3F%0A%0AYou%20haven’t.%20And%20do%20you%20see%20why%20not%3F%20If%20others%20are%20not%20expressly%20excluded%20then%20legal%20entities%2C%20natural%20and%20artificial%20persons%2C%20can%20also%20be%20identified%20in%20the%20same%20way.%0A%0AAs%20a%20card-carrying%20‘person’%2C%20you%20are%20considered%20no%20different%20to%20a%20‘natural’%20or%20‘artificial%20person’.%20You%20have%20the%20same%20rights%20a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Řazení:
14.08.2016 - 21:38 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori
Podľa slovenského zákona je fyzická osoba (FO)každý človek od narodenia. Má práva a povinnosti. Do veku 18 rokov má len čiastočnú právnu spǒsobilosť( spǒsobilosť vykonávať právne úkony) dosiahnutím veku 18 rokov získava plnú právnu spôsobilosť.
FO podnikateľ je iný pojem. Fo podnikateľom sa človek stane ak získa spǒsobilosť- oprávnenie vykonávať podnikateľskú činnosť na źáklade živnostenského oprávnenia alebo iného oprávnenia, ktoré vydá príslušný úrad.

Čiže všetci sme FO od narodenia, právnu spǒsobilosť získame nadobudnutím veku 18 rokov a FO živnostník budeme ak získame živnostenské oprávnenie.

Právnická osoba je subjekt( nie človek), ktorá má práva a povinnosti a nie je fyzická osoba. Sú to firmy, akciové spoločnosti, spoločnosti s ručením obmedzeným a ostatné, ktoré uvádza obchodný zákonník.


Predpokladám, že u vás v ČR tie definície nebudú veľmi odlišné.
15.08.2016 - 18:40 | Filtr
(Beran) nutelina » :o)) Nori
Dekuji za odpoved! Jake je presne zneni? Ja jsi teda vubec nemyslim ze jsme FO, kdo to jako autorita a procpak se nehovori o cloveku, to nedava smysl. Vim z 99% jsite ze jde o podvod, staci se podivat do jinych zemi, USA, UK, NL tam to jasne je a nemysli si to jen par jedincu ale i pravni poradci, free men, suvereni lide apod. Uz jsem nekolikkrat treba v NL byl na prednasky, venuji se tomu nekolik let.

Proc predpokladas? Ja tu definici primo zde uvadim a zadam o pravnicky rozklad :3:
16.08.2016 - 00:27 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori » nutelina
To je presné znenie zo slovenského živnostenského zákona (fyzická osoba- podnikateľ) a obchodného zákonníka (právnická osoba). S ČR máme spoločný právny základ, preto ten predpoklad. Nie som právnik, učím ekonomiku a s ňou súvisia tieto zákony a Pojmy FO a PO a ich rozlíšenie sú základ z ktorého sa vychádza pri definovaní účastníkov podnikania.
Čiže tieto pojmy sú tu definované účelovo pre oblasť podnikania a zákonov súvisiacich s podnikateľskou činnosťou.
V zákonoch pre platenie daní sa účastníci volajú inak. Každý zákon si definuje zúčastnené alebo dotknuté osoby po svojom.
V zákone a dani príjmu FO a PO sa už okrem týchto pojmov presne uvádza kedy ja FO platiteľ dane, povinná osoba atď... A tak isto PO- čiže tento zákon síce používa pojmy FO a PO ale ďalej už aj tieto pojmy rozoberá a upresňuje... A to sú už tie upresneniam- platiteľ, platca.... Atď.

Tieto definície sa v našich zákonoch za 25 rokov nezmenili. A mne prídu celkom logické, nevidím tam žiadny rozpor.
16.08.2016 - 00:36 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori » nutelina
Právne normy iných krajín si môžu definovať pojmy inak, tak ako to vyhovuje danej krajine, avšak v EÚ je určitá synchronizácia v definovaní týchto pojmov, lebo predsa môžme podnikať v ktorejkoľvek krajine... Tak isto je tu aj synchronizácia pojmov z účtovníctva, presne z toho istého dôvodu.
Keby sa tie pojmy úplne odlišovali, to by bol iný Babylon....
16.08.2016 - 00:46 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori
Dalo by sa povedať , že od narodenia si občan určitej krajiny a tým sa na teba vzťahujú aj právne normy tejto krajiny. Podľa nich máš od narodenia určité práva- právo na ochranu a starostlivosť od rodičov - oni majú voči tebe povinnosť starať sa o teba. Máš právo na vzdelávanie a rodičia ťa musia prihlásiť do školy. Nemǒžu ťa nútiť pracovať... Atď máš právo na zdravotnú starostlivosť, ochranu svojich základných ľudských práv...

Proste zákony krajiny v ktorej sa človek narodí a žije si ho podľa svojej potreby definujú v rǒznych životných situáciách...
V rôznych krajinách sa je tiež rôzne uvedený vek kedy sa človek stáva dospelým a má určité práva, ktorých opakom sú určité povinnosti.

Ale asi všade na svete platí: neznalosť zákona neospravedlňuje :3:
16.08.2016 - 23:29 | Filtr
(Beran) nutelina » :o)) Nori
No a to je zajimavy ze? Ze kazdy zakon si definuje hrace. Podivej se do latiny, persona je maska, neni to vubec totozne se zivym clovekem.

Treba jak chce stat vymahat pravo kdyz semnou jako s clovekem nema smlouvu?
16.08.2016 - 23:33 | Filtr
(Beran) nutelina » :o)) Nori
Ja jsem studoval matematiku, logicke je ze prava se daji jenom dat nebo uznat, povinosti se ukladat nedaji jedine ze bych clovek s tim nejak dal souhlas, a to dela treba tim ze se identifikuje, proc jinak je na vsech dopisech tve jmeno v VELKEM pismu? Je to kvuli obchodu, nejsi to ty ale zastupujes to jmeno, je to ´tva pravni osobnost´. Kdyz ji odmitnes a das to kazdymu vedet (das claim na sve jmeno) tak pak jsi mimo system. V holandsku to tak funguje.
16.08.2016 - 23:55 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori » nutelina
Áno to už sú tie nuansy, na ktoré mieriš od začiatku. Lenže to je v právnom štáte zadefinované tým, že sa na človeka vzťahujú zákony platiace v krajine v ktorej žije. Bez zmluvy a bez debaty. Štát si voči občanovi vie vymôcť svoje práva. Naopak to žiaľ nefunguje.V poisťovníctve existuje niečo podobné. Keď sa napr. narodíš na Slovensku, okamžite sa na teba vzťahuje zákon o zdravotnom poistení. Deti, študenti , dôchodcovia, nezamestnaní a ďalší sú okamžite poistencami štátu a štát hradí ich zdravotné poistenie. Bez zmluvy, zo zákona , ktorý je tak postavený. A śám štát je najväčším dlžníkom zdravotných poistení za svojich poistencov. :63:
sám svojej všeobecnej poisťovni a potom aj ostatným :41:
17.08.2016 - 00:01 | Filtr
(Beran) nutelina » :o)) Nori
Ja myslim ze to pravne nejde, bez smlouvy. Ten model se az tak nelis od jinych zemi kde se taky da system obejit. UK, USA, NL apod. to tak maji. Ze policista to nepozna a souhlasi ze bude hajet zajmy statu to pak je problem ano...

Dale zalozeni statu apod. je celkem nesmyslne, na zaklade ceho, kde je ta verejna vule?
17.08.2016 - 00:07 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori » nutelina
Určite sa dá existovať aj mimo systému, priam byť mimo systému a ešte ho aj využite v dobrom slova zmysle( kniha o chlapíkovi ktorý rok žil mimo systěmu a sám si zabezpečoval bývanie( dostal starý karavan , sǎm si vyrábal elektriku, ekologicky vykurovať karavan,pestoval rastliny, atď a žil bez peňazí. )
Ale takisto sa dá systém aj zneužívať skupinami občanov, lebo systém to umožňuje a nazýva to princípom solidarity. Z pohľadu tých , ktorí to zneužijú je to skvelé, z pohľadu tých, ktorí to potrebujú je to minimum a z pohľadu tých, ktorí prispievajú ale nikdy to nevyužijú je to zdieranie a mrhanie nimi zarobenými peniazmi, ktoré im zo zákona systém prikazuje platiť...
Vnímam to tak, že ak chceme zo systému vystúpiť, tak to má význam len ak to urobí väčšina ... No a vtedy príde k výmene systémov a príde iný....
Tak vzniká otázka, čo vlastne sleduješ skúmanǐm týchto pojmov???
17.08.2016 - 00:14 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori » nutelina
Žiaľ ide to. Tak ako napr. Škola- neviem o tom, že by rodič spisoval niekde na svete zmluvu so školou, že sa tam bude dieťa učiť. Zo zákona má povinnosť dať v určitom veku dieťa do školy alebo ho mať v domácom vzdelávaní, podľa pravidiel daných štátom a urobí to zǎpisom dieťaťa do školy, ktorú mu vyberie. Nie je tu žiadna zmluva.Ak to neurobí , porušil zákon a nie jeden. Zákon o vzdelávaní , charitu práv dieťaťa a zanedbal podľa zákona o sociálnych veciach starostlivosť o dieťa atď....
17.08.2016 - 00:20 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori » nutelina
založenie štátu bolo slobodnou vǒľou skupiny ľudí, ktorí boli schopní presvedčiť ostatných, že to bude pre nich výhodné a prínosné. A tak ho založili. A rokmi sa to zdeformovalo naopak. Nie štát háji záujmy ľudí a stará sa o ich potreby, slúži im,ale naopak využíva ich na uspokojenie svojich potrieb, záujmov a mocichtivosti tých, ktorí sú v jeho čele.
22.08.2016 - 22:24 | Filtr
(Beran) nutelina » :o)) Nori
Jo a kdy tomu tak bylo?
23.08.2016 - 20:04 | Filtr
(Střelec) :o)) Nori » nutelina
Tak dlho nežijem aby som ti napísala presný dátum :3:


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