Vzkříšení - svědectví, křesťanská a buddhistická zkušenost - Diskuze a zkušenosti

mitea » Jyotis No,je to neuveritelné,ako si drzí to brucho a hlavu.to je teda paleta,nic podobné som necítala,nepocula ...ale verím,ze takéto zázraky sú mozné...
Co sa dialo jej a jej manzelovi,ako sa vyzdravela s porázky,s ochrnutia a slepoty v kostole,to je mazec..silná viera a láska v srdci...
Takéto príbehy sa dejú vo vsetkých nábozenských smeroch ale aj ateistom,ktorí následne prechádzajú na vieru a menia svoj zivot...
ako si napísala,"príde smrt a bude mat tvoje oci.."
Táto veta ma hodne oslovuje a vyjadruje pravdu...
Peklo,súd na zemi i na nebi, si kazdý predstavuje podla svojej viery,ilúzie,ale vsetkých spojuje podstata bytia,bez ohladu na to,akú cestu si zvolíme ...
Dík za ten príbeh

Jyotis » ------ však jo. Proto jsem psala, že je asi nedobré vytvářet si pregnantní struktury bible a jiných textů..s doslovnou znalostí a dogmatickou vírou...
přijde smrt a bude mít Tvé oči...

A peklu se asi nevyhnou, protože nelze pak nechybovat, nesoudit se.
Mnoho mnoho předsudků, i když jsou třeba pozitivně myšleny.

Proto si myslím, že člověk pak může dostat velké bonusy v podobě zázraků, ale také malusy.

a filosofičtí migranti a ateisti? Já měla sice za bdělého stavu, ale přece jen jasnou a velmi živou vizi inteligentní vesmírné spirály, která má vlastní Já...velmi podobné tomu našemu, ale s možností "vidět se" zvnějšku i zevnitř a hlavně v jakési euforii..

A neměla jsem předtím tento vědomý předsudek. Nicméně: není mi proti srsti :)

A nedlouho poté mi vykládal i volal p. Král svou vizi setkání s Bohem: ten soudil - a naznačil dvě cesty: lásku a poznání...
A pan Král si myslel předtím, že je dokonalý ateista.:)

Najdise.cz » Jyotis Systémová zpráva: Příspěvek je od uživatele ------, který(á) již smazal(a) registraci na tomto webu:
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Treba vsech 5. Ale je fakt, ze poprve, kdyz jsem tvuj prispevek nasel, mne napadnul Zeland a egregory...
Jen by mne docela zajimalo, jak dopadnou lidi, kteri za zivot vystridali mnoho smeru a uceni, v nichz stravili nejakou cast jejich zivota a v nichz nechali nejakou cast jejich energie, kteri toho hodne precetli, kteri toho hodne navstivili... Ti aby chodili od jednoho soudu/trunu k druhemu... Anebo muzou chodit od nevim kam do nevim kam, aniz by meli jasne dany svuj smer a cil... Takze stastni ti, kdo znaji sveho Boha; vedi k cemu smerovat, co delat a co nikoli...
Ale i tak, nerek bych, ze mezi nami a Bohem uz nejsou zadne dalsi urovne... Co kdyz tam jsou nejaci "mensi" bohove - tvurci/spravci civilizaci a svetu...??? Porad budou na nesrovnatelne vyssi urovni, a tudiz jsou to treba oni, kdo byli vzpominani jako "Pan"... Pak by i kazde nabozenstvi melo sveho "Boha"... Nakonec, cele je to maskulinni konstrukt, ktery je postaveny na hierarchii. Co kdyby to vsechno vzaly do rukou zeny a predefinovaly vsechno podle jejich videni Sveta?
Navic, nezapominej, ze to byla Ukrajinka/Ruska... Ti jsou daleko vic poboznejsi... Nabozenstvi tam maji pevnou, skoro neotresitelnou tradici... Berou to, jako nedilnou soucast zivota (ikdyz se k tomu casto staveji tak povrchne)...

Jyotis » mitea Z tohoto hlediska je zajímavé, co se jí děje potom a nakolik je to ovlivněné právě její "fikcí". Příčemž, vzpomeň, jak líčí své probuzení. Šokovaní jsou lidi okolo, ale ona si drží tělo, aby se jí nerozpadlo a říká jim, aby ji zašili, přičemž oni ji tedy zašijí a bez narkózy ..
už to je prazvláštní. Dejme tomu, je to doktorka. Může mít distanční vztah ke svému tělo, to jí bezesporu hodně pomáhá (druhý případ jsou doktoři hypochondři :))

Jyotis » ------ myslíš, že platí všechny čtyři?

mitea » Jyotis Tá viera Tatiany mi skor dojde psychologická fikcia,taký zázitok cloveka dost ovplyvní a je asi nárocné sa s tým vysporiadat a súcasne si zachovat zdravý rozum...Je to akýsi fenomén...Zijes,a uskutocnujes svoje bytie, sny,egregory, schránky a zmes vsetkých myslienok, snov, vásní,viery...
Ale ako dokaz pre mna, ze tak to bude po smrti, je to dostatocné.Kazdý má ten zázitok iný, subjektívny.Je to ako opis "zivého sna" ...tebou vytvorený.Zálezí len na nej,ako to spracuje..
Podla budhistickej náuky je dusa po oddelení sa od hmotného tela,kedy sa uz nevracia do hmotnej podoby vzdialená od akejkolvek príciny svojej existencie.Castaneda písal,ze az ked telo stratí úplne sílu zivota a umiera,az potom moze zazívat stavy podobné smrti,ale ze s tým,co sa deje pri klinickej smrti to nemá nic spolocné,co v skutocnosti sme a co sa od nás ziada... nie vzdy sme schopní ustát klamlivú ilúziu...
Kafka tvrdí,ze kazdá bytost má svoju emanáciu a ze niektorí v týchto klinických snoch,potom aj zijú ...
Klinická smrt,nie je to isté,ako úplne odpojenie tela,podla mna..
Klinická smrt je podla mna INDIVIDUÁLNA FIKCIA,co zazila aj Tatiana...

Najdise.cz » Jyotis Systémová zpráva: Příspěvek je od uživatele ------, který(á) již smazal(a) registraci na tomto webu:
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k te "ctvrte"... pac ty 3 predchozi jsou moc uzce vymezene, a jako celek jsou nekompletni

Jyotis » ------ a ke které variantě se přikláníš?

Najdise.cz » Jyotis Systémová zpráva: Příspěvek je od uživatele ------, který(á) již smazal(a) registraci na tomto webu:
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Prihoriva...
Zustane nebo nezustane... Jako s kazdym navykem... Podstoupis leceni, ale je jen na Tobe, jestli po tom navyku zase sahnes z duvodu nejakeho strachu, pohodlnosti, stesku po "prinosech" onoho navyku, nebo jestli das prednost discipline a kultivaci nove ziskaneho... Uz v pohadkach se o tom psalo...

Jyotis » mitea ta víra Tatiany mi přijde jak ostrý meč..na jednu stranu jí způsobuje mimořádné potíže, neboť pokud je někdo jiný a přitom má nějaké výsledky, není jen blázen, kterému se nedaří, tak ho okolí napadá. Na druhou stranu jí to umožňuje mimořádné výkony.
Vidím 3 možnosti výkladu takových příběhů:
1. existují skutečně nějaké bytosti, lidstvo s nimi má zkušenosti, které sepsalo do různých knih a tyto bytosti, pokud se na ně mentálně napojíme vírou nás pak nějak ovládají - poskytují nějaké bonusy a malusy..
2. jsou to egregory, které tím, že si je lidi předávají s vírou po generace získaly jakousi vlastní živost, a opět, pak poskytují bonusy a malusy, podle toho, jak je s nimi člověk v souladu.
3. jsou to více méně individuální konstrukce, projekce a víra dokáže, jako ten meč, buď omezit, nebo dodat křídla, o kterých se nám normálně nezdá, protože neznáme své možnosti, když odstraníme předsudky. To se občas stane právě vírou (např. když žena odhodí berle, protože viděla zázrak.. a skutečně jde. Je otázka, zda jí to zůstane do druhého dne).

mitea Verím v posmrtné zivoty i vzkriesena..
Uz za mladi som cítala Bretislava Kafku, zakladatela experimentálnej psychológie a parapsychológie...jeho knihy boli v kolónke Tajné vedy...Sledoval umierajúcich ludí pri smrti - zaznamenával výpovede tých, ktori sa "vrátili spät" z prahu smrti.Neskor knihy od Moodyho a pocula spústu výpovedí na videách...cítala vela kníh a aj v osobnom zivote som mala moznost spoznat niekoho,co sa vrátil s druhej strany...
Verím tomu,ved inak by bol nás zivot nezmyselný, v kontexte prírody velmi krátky, izolovaný, slabý,aby mal pre titanské procesy vesmíru význam...
Podla mna sa kazdému deje to,comu verí na zemi,v tých obrazoch potom prezíva aj prechod na druhú stranu...je to o obsahu.

Jyotis » mitea to víš. V zemích, kde úmrtí nekontroluje pořádně doktor se někdy nerozliší, zvlášť u starého člověka, jestli je v něm ještě kousek života, nebo ne :)
Mrkni se na ten buddhistický text. Ten je docela pěkný.

mitea http://zahranicni.eurozpravy.cz/asi…

Najdise.cz » player Systémová zpráva: Příspěvek je od uživatele PetRaK., který(á) již smazal(a) registraci na tomto webu:
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Juuu Život mezi životy.. ta knížečka se mi před dvouma rokama taky postavila do cesty a potvrdila mi směr mojí životní cesty.

Jyotis » player jasně, ale tady je, zdá se, shrnuto pár svědectví přímo na stránkách Rinpocheho..

player » Jyotis Právě - a o bardu je celý Život mezi životy.

Jyotis » Jyotis tak jsem našla nějaké ty posmrtné zkušenosti z buddhistické praxe. Zajímavé. Souhlasí to s tím, že bardo (tj. posmrtný stav) je naše PROJEKCE, soud je externalizací našeho vnitřního souzení. Vše je velmi silné, protože bez těla nemůžeme racionalizovat, analyzovat, vše dopadá bezprostředdně.
Proto zřejmě v podstatě nemůžeme vidět něco zcela nerozpoznatelného, neznámého..
Je to ze stránek dole uvedených. Trochu jsem to pokrátila. Jsou tam zkušenosti "mrtvých" prý i týden.

Living & Dying from the Tibetan Buddhist Perspective
Tulku Thondup Rinpoche

www.TulkuThondup.com

We all want to live the good life and die a good death. But most of us are so uncomfortable with the mention of the word “death,” that we do not allow ourselves to relate to it. So instead, we gloss over it or pretend that it will not happen for a very long time.

Contemplating death helps us live better, fuller lives

From the Buddhist perspective, life is not just this life we are leading now, but also the infinitude of future lives that extends before us, for Buddhism believes in reincarnation. We die to continue living. Our body merges into the elements, but our consciousness migrates and is reborn in a new body.

Buddhism teaches that everything we think, feel, and do creates a correspondingly positive or negative habit, or karmic imprint, in our mind-stream. Selfless, peaceful, and joyful thoughts leave imprints that give rise to wonderful, peaceful, loving experiences in our future. Selfish, negative, hateful thoughts give rise to unhappy experiences. So whether our next life will be happy or not depends on whether our mental habits were positive or negative.
If we cultivated peace and kindness, we will be reborn in a peaceful world filled with loving beings. We might come back as a wonderful human being. Or we might take rebirth in one of the infinite joyful celestial paradises of light and wisdom that Buddhists call “pure lands.” Beings born in the pure lands become enlightened in that very lifetime. Once enlightened, they can manifest in our world by choice to benefit beings -- not because their karma compels them to.

If, on the other hand, we were filled with, say, jealousy, we will reincarnate in a world that reflects that trait: a world where beings are always scheming to harm each other.

When we truly understand the implications of our own and others’ mortality from the heart, we will automatically want to use every precious day to purify our faults and grow in compassion, peace, joy, and wisdom. Death will then become a launching pad to increasingly better, more beneficial lives until we become a Buddha ourselves.

In contrast, not to prepare for death, and to leave this world with the same faults that we came in with, is a sad waste of our precious life. Once lost, it can be hard to get such a good opportunity to progress again.

Buddhism’s vast knowledge about death

Part of our issue with death is lack of information. We tend to dread the unknown. And for most of us, what happens after death is a total unknown.

Buddhism, however, is rich in knowledge about death. The Buddha and a long line of enlightened masters going back thousands of years, could see into the invisible through their fully blossomed omniscient wisdom minds and taught extensively about death and reincarnation. To this day there are Tibetan Buddhist realized masters who can remember their previous lives here and their sojourns in pure lands in between lives, see where others take rebirth, and help the deceased go to better rebirths. When my teacher was a child, for instance, he would recount details of his previous life, recite prayers that his predecessor used to say but that he had not yet been taught, and describe the Pure Land that he had visited in between lives, including some of the beings there and what they looked like. Realized masters since the Buddha have given instructions on how to navigate through death and help others who are dying, instructions that are shared in my book, Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth.

Tibet additionally has an amazing tradition of gifted people who return from clinical death to describe what they experienced. These people are called delogs, or returners from death. Profoundly spiritual, delogs are sent back by enlightened ones to record and share their experiences. Their experiences are in some ways similar to western near death experiences, except that delogs leave their bodies for many days, sometimes up to a week, not just for a few minutes. This allows them to travel far beyond the time of death.

Tibetans have collected delog accounts for hundreds of years. When I was a teenager in Eastern Tibet, a famous delog, Shugchung Khadroma, lived just 20 miles from Dodrupchen Monastery where I grew up and studied. Although I never met her, I used to be mesmerized by her experiences, which she had written down. Streams of people used to visit her for news about dead relatives. She could usually tell them where they had taken rebirth and relay messages they may have given her. Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth includes 11 delog stories.

Simply learning what enlightened Buddhist masters and delogs say about death demystifies it and can make us less afraid.

What the bardo is like

When we die, we lose consciousness and our mind exits our body. When we regain consciousness, we are in what is known as the bardo, the transitional passage between death and our next birth.

What happens to us--the terrain that unfolds before us--in the bardo is a reflection of our habitual thoughts and feelings. Since we are just mind in the bardo, whatever we think can instantly appear, karma permitting. If we think “New York,” we will instantly be there. If the next moment we think “London,” that is where we are. If we had strong devotion in a higher being, we could see them. Delog Dawa Drolma, who was highly devout during her life, for instance, beheld White Tara, a Buddha in female form, in a blazing sphere of light when she emerged from her body at death. She also saw beautiful female deities amidst beams of rainbow lights. Together they escorted her to a pure land.

Consider, too, the experience of another delog, Lingza Chokyi. When she died, she saw a five-colored light above her head that projected rays of red light. At the end of each ray appeared a menacing creature with a human body and animal head. One had the head of a serpent, another of a tiger, another of an eagle, and so on. Their eyes were huge. They brandished weapons and thundered “Beat! Beat! Kill! Kill!”

All were actually reflections of Chokyi’s mind. The lights were the luminosity of the innate wisdom of her mind, which each of us possesses. Her anger appeared as a snake-headed creature; her arrogance, as a tiger-headed one, and so on. Chokyi was petrified. But the moment she recalled her lama’s instructions -- “Rays are self-rays. Images are self-images. Sounds are self-sounds. All are the self-radiance of your own mind” -- the scary forms instantly dissipated.

If bardo beings could remember and maintain the understanding that they are just mind, they could control their journey.

Take delog Gyalwa Yungtrung, an accomplished yogi from Eastern Tibet. He was traversing a narrow mountain pass over a precipice in the bardo when he came upon a massive rock wall. There was no way around it. The only opening through which he could see to the other side was a hole no bigger than his fist. However, the instant he remembered: “Consciousness can get through anything,” he found himself on the other side of the wall.

Without prior training in meditation, however, it will be difficult for us to remember that the bardo is a mental projection, the same way that it is hard for us to be aware that we are dreaming during a dream.

In fact, many people don’t even realize that they have died until some time afterwards. Bardo beings imagine that they still have their body due to their past habit. So they believe and see that they have a body. They often try to talk to people they know and join family or friends for meals. However, since no one can see them, they are ignored and may become upset. When family members arrange their funeral, they often insist, “But I’m here. I’m not dead! Can’t you see?”

The deceased also often do not see their bodies as they are. Delog Lingza Chokyi, for instance, felt bewildered when her children kept caressing a disgusting snake that was lying on her bed dressed in her clothes. She was horrified when her daughter called it “mother” and tried to get it to eat. The snake was actually her body, but she understood this only later.

The reason for bardo beings’ confusion is that, without a physical body to stabilize them, they cannot analyze their thoughts. They fly from one thought to another like a leaf in a gale. So one moment they may realize that they have died. But the next, they forget and again think that they are alive.

Yet the minds of bardo beings are sharper than our minds are in some respects. They have some clairvoyance to read our thoughts, for instance, and are highly sensitive to our feelings.

When a friend visited delog Lingza Chokyi’s house and started meditating that he was Amitabha Buddha, the Buddha who presides over the Blissful Pure Land, Chokyi saw him as a translucent Amitabha Buddha, an enlightened emanation, and experienced unimaginable bliss and peace. On the other hand, when her children wept, she felt pain. Their cries literally felt like thunderclaps to her. Such experiences are not uncommon, which is why Buddhists urge survivors to pray and generate peaceful, loving feelings towards the departed. It is also why they advise waiting for a number of days before thinking about inheritance or thinking ill of the person, as this could upset them and influence their journey for the worse.

How the bardo landscape reflects our mind

At some point the deceased hears a voice calling him or her from afar. Following the voice, he suddenly finds himself in an unfamiliar place and senses that now he can no longer turn back, but must keep going forward.

Although individuals have unique experiences in the bardo, there are also many widely shared experiences. Many beings, for instance, feel that they must climb perilously narrow passes to reach the top of a high mountain, traverse a vast desert, and cross a turbulent river before arriving at a Court of Judgment.

Each landscape corresponds to a mental habit. The high mountain is a reflection of arrogance. The narrow paths represent mental rigidity; the desert, the feeling of never having enough; and the turbulent river, anger.

Realized beings periodically pass through, leading hundreds of bardo beings up radiant rainbow paths to the pure lands. To be able to follow them, beings do not need high realization. They need to have opened their hearts to that possibility.

What the judgment represents

Eventually, the deceased arrive at a majestic Courthouse surrounded by crowds of people anxiously waiting to be called in. Once inside, the deceased sees his life on display. Some officers watch his life unfolding in a mirror. Others pore over written records about his life. Yet others check marking boards. A prosecutor empties a bag of dark pebbles representing the deceased’s negative deeds and argues against him. A defender then empties a bag of white pebbles and pleads for him. The judge then delivers his verdict regarding where the person is to take rebirth.

Is there really a judge? A judgment? Buddhism teaches that all these events are fabrications of our mind. The judgment is a reflection of our own inner tribunal, our mental habit of judging. All our lives we are constantly judging others and worrying about what they will think of us. So when we die, it is only natural that we carry this habit and project it as an external judge judging us.

How we perceive the judgment depends on our maturity. If we are open for it, we could see that the judge is our own enlightened nature manifesting in the form of an enlightened being. Delog Karma Wangdzin tells how she was quaking with fear while waiting outside the courthouse. The moment she stepped inside, however, she saw the judge as Guru Padmasambhava, one of the greatest adepts of Buddhist history and founder of Buddhism in Tibet. Her heart filled with joy. Another delog saw the judge as Buddha Shakyamuni. Yet another realized the true nature of the mind when we entered the courtroom.

How to prepare for the bardo and our next incarnation

According to Buddhism, our mind is the center of our life. Our physical actions reflect how we think. If our mind is peaceful, we will act peacefully. We will speak peacefully. Our bardo journey and our next life will be peaceful. So it is our mind and thoughts above all that we must refine. Meditation is one of most effective means to improve our mental habits, as meditation focuses us on positive thoughts and feelings totally and from the depth of the mind.

Buddhism offers many meditations to prepare for the bardo and rebirth. Whatever we do, though, we need to practice beforehand. It is virtually impossible to start a new meditation in the bardo, as we will have too little peace and reasoning power to focus on anything for long. So instead, we will fall back on our past mental habits.

Right now, it is easy to change our mental habits, but hard to restructure our circumstances because we live within the strictures of a solid body and society. In the bardo, on the other hand, it is hard to change our mental habits, but easy to restructure our circumstances because at death our habits alone determine our world. That is why we need to practice beforehand.

Meditation on the true nature of the mind

The most powerful practice for death is to realize the true nature of the mind beyond concepts. When we die, we all go through the true nature, as our concepts and emotions dissolve at death and our luminous innate wisdom, the true nature of the mind, shines through. If highly accomplished esoteric meditators are ready, they could merge with it and maintain their realization and could attain enlightenment at death. Their bardo journey would then end there, in liberation.

For those without such advanced realization, however, the experience of the luminous nature flashes by, as it dissolves the moment we conceptualize it. If so, we continue through the bardo.

Meditation on Amitabha Buddha and his Blissful Pure Land

Another powerful practice that we can do, with or without meditating on the nature of the mind, is to meditate on Amitabha Buddha and his Blissful Pure Land, Sukhavati. Amitabha, body of unconditional love, omniscient wisdom, and boundless power radiates blessing lights to all beings throughout the universe limitlessly, which is why he is known as the “Buddha of Infinite Light” (Amitabha). Amitabha Buddha and his Blissful Pure Land are actually inseparable–they are manifestations of the universal ultimate truth and its pure qualities. In reality, they are not someone or something else, but the reflections of our own true nature, the enlightened qualities of our own mind.

Eons ago, when Amitabha Buddha was a person like ourselves and was developing the mind of enlightenment, he vowed that when he attained Buddhahood he would manifest a pure land that would be accessible to beings even if they had no high spiritual realization. And so, when he became Amitabha Buddha, he manifested the Blissful Pure Land, which is, as the historical Buddha said, the most accessible of pure lands. Rebirth there requires only four “causes:”

First, we need to repeatedly think about Amitabha Buddha and his Pure Land and feel their amazing peace, joy, and compassion. The more familiar and ingrained these images and feelings become in our mind-stream, the more likely that they will vividly and powerfully arise in our memory at death. If so, we will find ourselves there.

Second, we must accumulate merits, or good karmas. There are many ways to do this including praying, developing compassion and devotion, and serving others.

Third, we need cultivate the mind of enlightenment—a genuine selfless, loving attitude -- and pray and meditate with the commitment to ferry all beings to the Blissful Pure Land.

Fourth, we must dedicate our merits to all beings and aspire that all may be reborn in the Blissful Pure Land. This augments our merits manifold and ensures that they go towards the goal of rebirth in the Pure Land.

The Core of the Meditation on Amitabha Buddha

Here is the core of a guided meditation that is also given in the new CD that accompanies the paperback edition of Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth.

Begin by developing the mind of enlightenment, thinking that we are doing this meditation for the sake of all mother beings.

ohenvoblacich strašně ráda bych si to poslechla,ale neuvěřitelně mě dráždí jalovej hlas tý překladatelky..prostě to nedám

Jyotis » player rozhodně příjemnější varianta. Sobotní dárek:]

Jyotis » player dík. Přečtu si.
Lidská psychika je zrádná právě tou fabulací a převleky do symbolů.
Skoro vždy tam člověk vystupuje jako jakási loutka, někdy i svého širšího NadJá, která měla plnit nějaké úkoly podle pravidel, která dobře neznala, resp. každý z pánů odkazuje na nějakou "Knihu".
Jen Ježíš změnil na jednodušší pravidlo laskavosti a introspekce. Ale, kupodivu, není to dostačující při soudu.
Zajímavé je, že na youtube není žádný vzkříšený muslim, aspoň jsem ho nenašla.
Nebo křesťan ve smyslu čistého křesťana, tj. který by se rovněž nevztahoval k Starému zákonu a přísnému Bohu.
Ale prakticky vždy platí Pavezeho verš:
"Přijde smrt a bude mít TVÉ oči."

player » Jyotis Právě - všude jsou jakési podmínky...já věřím této knize.To mě dává logiku.

player http://diskuze.najdise.cz/prispevek…

I tohle nezní nezajímavě,byť to nemá s náboženstvím nic do činění.Vlastně má.

Jyotis » player protipříklad: Buddhismus a delog:
http://www.buddhismus.cz/delog-cest…

Vypadá to, že nad sebou máme spoustu pánů, podle toho, s nimiž obcujeme, ti nás pak soudí..
Není knihy mrtvých bez SOUDU.

A zatím v žádné verzi nestačila láska, ale v každé se vyžadují nějaké oběti, služby, množení služebníků...

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